# Get Out And Explore! > Tech Section >  Suspension damage - what is this sound?

## MattJ

This video clip is only 10-seconds, so hopefully you can spare a moment and give me your opinions:https://vimeo.com/277986738/d9c6df08e4My driver-side front suspension is creaking.  It's damage from some fun on Class VI roads a couple weeks ago. I was planning to get it looked at later this month, but it seems like it's been getting worse.  No issues with handling or turning.  I'm hoping it's just a creaky spring or minor rubbing somewhere.  I inspected it visually, and can't find anything out of place (but I have no idea what to look for).I was hoping you all could give me opinions on whether it's fine to just live with the creaking for a couple weeks . . . since I am heading out on some remote beach driving this week and do NOT want to get stranded with a broken suspension system.I made this video driving on some cobblestones very slowly, since that REALLY exaggerates the creaking sound.  At normal speeds and normal pavement it is silent.Thanks!

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## FSHJNKY

I dont hear creaking. I hear a clunking of sorts. Sounds driveshaft related to me. But its hard to tell from that short clip and all the other noises,

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## MattJ

Updates:1) I went back to the cobblestone street and drove a few laps.  Disconnected and re-connected the sway bars three times.2) Then I went home and cut away part of the plastic fender liner on both sides.3) No fix.  Here's another 10-second listen:  https://vimeo.com/277999008/b14060d352It sounds like metal creaking, not plastic. Almost like something rubbing on a body panel or pinch seam.  It's thin and echo-y.  I also noticed that the creaking happens when the vehicle sways a little side-to-side or front-to-back when stopping and starting.  So it's not just when the suspension is traveling up and down.

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## bob

Holy crap, thats messed up.
I have no answer, but am going to keep am eye on this because mine has a similar sound when parked and turn the wheel. Like metal stress. Unpleasant as hell, but not on a constant level like this.
I will say, my next step was to take the rubber jacket off the steering shaft, or at least open one end, and grease the crap out of it. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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## MattJ

Maybe this is the source of the creaking?

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## Ivoryring

Take a pic of both sides where the swaybar goes through the rubber bushing bolted to the frame - I'm going to GUESS that the swaybar is no longer centered, and one side (the noisy side) is stuffed deep into the bushing compared to the other.

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## FSHJNKY

Pop that bolt out and pull the sway bar and see if it goes away. Also with the Jeep parked, hand at 9 and 3 on the tire wiggle back and forth or push hard on 12 and see if there is play in the wheel. Could be a wheel bearing.

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## Ivoryring

The pic you have actually shows it - the end of the swaybar on the 'noisy side' is bent. It seems like that took some doing!

That doesn't mean it's the source of the noise - but it's definitely not supposed to make contact there, no matter what else is going on.

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## Mach2NH

It was not said if that sway link hitting was the sound but I know the front shock mount on the axle side will clank around a lot with small amounts of axle movement.  Most things on here are JKs now and dont know if the JK has the same shock mount setup as the XJ/TJ.   Just something to think about.       Try standing on the side of the jeep and rocking it back and forth to see if you can make the same sound.

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## MattJ

Updates:

1) Thank you everyone for the input! I really appreciate that so many others are willing to jump in and help a fellow ENH member, no questions asked.

2) I decided to go ahead with the remote beach trek for a couple reasons: 1) handling and steering seemed to be fine, and 2) I packed every piece of possible beach recovery equipment (traction boards, pull pal anchor for the winch, high lift jack with wide base, kinetic rope). We made it all the way to the end of the dunes and back. I actually had to lend my traction boards to some fellas who got their pickup truck buried up to the bumpers.

3) I never did figure out the source of the creaking. I sprayed a lot of WD-40 all over springs, sway bars and control arms just to make sure it wasn't simple rust or binding. But the creaking is still there.

4) The good news is that it doesn't seem to be putting me a risk of a breakdown, so I'll just plan to get it looked at when I am back home. The only other thing I noticed besides the bolt that is rubbing the frame is the angle of the sway bar joint. Does this look correct?

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## MattJ

> Pop that bolt out and pull the sway bar and see if it goes away. Also with the Jeep parked, hand at 9 and 3 on the tire wiggle back and forth or push hard on 12 and see if there is play in the wheel. Could be a wheel bearing.


Good suggestions - I'll remove that bolt tomorrow morning and go for some more laps on the cobblestones!

By the way, you can blame Angry Trout for all of this . . .

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## MattJ

And here are a few photos of the trek.  I even found a Jeep ad on the back of my wife's People Magazine (beach reading).

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## Giovanni

That's the sound of your wallet getting lighter  :Rolleyes: 

If you can't recreate the noise by rocking the jeep around at a stand still, i would put it up on 4 jackstands and spin the driveshaft to see if you hear anything in the driveline. When you rock it around on the ground, try it with the wheels pointed in a bunch of different directions in case it is only happening in a narrow range of your steering angle.

Giovanni

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## MattJ

> That's the sound of your wallet getting lighter 
> Giovanni


You said it!  I'm on Nantucket, and that's why I am spending so much time trying to figure this out myself with help from this forum!  If I take my Jeep to a shop here, it will be $1,000 before they put it on the lift and figure how to tell me I am headed for a catastrophe if I don't pay them to rebuild the suspension immediately . . .

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## ecgreen

My old man has been in the auto industry for 60 years. When it comes to odd tuck noises he always tells me, "It WILL rear its ugly head."

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## NotThePainter

> You said it!  I'm on Nantucket, and that's why I am spending so much time trying to figure this out myself with help from this forum!  If I take my Jeep to a shop here, it will be $1,000 before they put it on the lift and figure how to tell me I am headed for a catastrophe if I don't pay them to rebuild the suspension immediately . . .


Nantuket? Car repair? That's what the ferry is for... I'm not sure there is a garage on Nantucket. (I was chatting with a flat bed operator and many of his runs involved the ferry to Nantucket, bringing a car to the Cape, getting service and a dealer, and then returning the car.)

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## MattJ

The other guy who does brisk business here on Nantucket is the one with the truck that charges $500 (or more) to pull stuck tourists off the beach.  I've heard he gets several calls a day, and only takes cash. You wouldn't believe what some people think they can drive on the beach (yes, including minivans).  Out on the dunes yesterday, I had to lend my traction boards to a group of two 4WD pickup trucks that were dug in deep.  They had a couple shovels, but I was surprised that was their only recovery plan.

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## MattJ

I figured I'd start a new thread that skips right to the answer.  It's the sway bar grinding on the circular protrusion in the frame.  This explains everything: 1) why it still handles fine, 2) why I can still cycle the transmission through 4H and 4L and disconnect/re-connect the sway bars no problem, and 3) why it sounds utterly horrible!  The grinding echoes through the entire frame.

So here's the question:  what should I do?  Would it be possible to disconnect the sway bars and yank it over a bit?  Or should I use a pry bar to bend the sway bar away from the frame?  Or leave it alone and avoid making the problem worse?  I'd prefer just to live with the grinding until I can get home from my beach trip and take it to my local shop.  But let me know if you think that risks more severe breakage.

As I said in the previous post, I very much appreciate everyone who offered input on this.  THANK YOU!

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## MattJ

FOUND IT!  I made a shortcut posting with the answer: THREAD COMBINED FOR ORGANIZATION PURPOSES.

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## Ivoryring

Eventually you will clearance enough that it won't make those noises any more.

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## MattJ

Yes - maybe I've finally managed to break my Jeep in a way that fixes itself . . .

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## Ivoryring

> The other guy who does brisk business here on Nantucket is the one with the truck that charges $500 (or more) to pull stuck tourists off the beach.  I've heard he gets several calls a day, and only takes cash. You wouldn't believe what some people think they can drive on the beach (yes, including minivans).  Out on the dunes yesterday, I had to lend my traction boards to a group of two 4WD pickup trucks that were dug in deep.  They had a couple shovels, but I was surprised that was their only recovery plan.


I have family on Nantucket. Wave to them when you go by. 

This is me (with the fish)

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## MattJ

Nice catch!!! Great photo.  Lots of people fish from their vehicles here.  Wish I could get my kids into it.  Maybe your photo will help . . .

It's great out here.  So many Jeeps that nobody does the "Jeep wave" (you'd never put your arm down while driving).  The day we arrived, I saw two LUCKY JLs that came over on the ferry brand new, headed for the island dealership.  They'll never see a stoplight in their lifetime . . .

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## MattJ

When I went to go work on the sway bar with a hammer and pry bar, I decided to disconnect the bars and then lay under the Jeep while my son turned the power steering from side to side.  Turns out the creaking is coming from the joints at either end of the driver side lower control arm.  I must have bent it with a nice rock strike.

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## FSHJNKY

> When I went to go work on the sway bar with a hammer and pry bar, I decided to disconnect the bars and then lay under the Jeep while my son turned the power steering from side to side.  Turns out the creaking is coming from the joints at either end of the driver side lower control arm.  I must have bent it with a nice rock strike.


Something has caused it to start rubbing so I am guessing you have a bad bushing or something bent or loose somewhere. 

As far as the control arm, they look exactly the same to me as far as the bend goes. I can see the rock rash, but the geometry looks identical to me.

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## FSHJNKY

Threads merged for cleanliness.

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## MattJ

Thanks.  Yes - I was surprised, too.  I really thought the fact that the sway bar is grinding on the frame was the source of all that noise.  But when I lay under the Jeep while the steering articulated back and forth, it was clear the creaking and groaning was coming from the brackets on the lower control arm.  I agree that it looks fine in the photos . . . so maybe the one of the brackets or connecting bolts is bent? I was also thinking it might be possible that the angle of the lower control arm is fine, but one end of it is bent upwards.  That would be hard to see.  It's crazy how much noise it makes since the lower control arm is always in motion.  I'm hoping it's a cheap fix.

Funny that I have so much damage in the suspension to choose from when trying to pinpoint the noise!

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## Giovanni

Does it make any noise if you are driving on smooth pavement? Both in a straight line and in a circle.

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## MattJ

No noise on smooth pavement or traveling on highways at speed.  But it does creak a tiny bit when I turn, even when stationary.  When I was laying under the Jeep, I put my hand on the lower control arm and could feel it vibrate a tiny bit with each creaking noise.  The arm must be binding in the bracket at one end, so it makes noise every time the control arm moves (which is often).

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## Giovanni

the clunking was so frequent on the cobblestones i didn't want to abandon the driveline potential  :Trytofly: . Glad you found the cause!

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## MattJ

Yes - I've probably driven 500 miles since that day on Angry Trout Run.  At first I thought it was just my mangled tube steps grinding against the frame or pinch seams on the body panels.  But after I removed the tube steps the sound started getting more frequent.  So I got worried and did NOT want to drive into remote sand areas until I figured it out. Driving on cobblestones really exaggerates the scary noises since the control arms are vibrating rapidly.

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## MattJ

Spent more time under the Jeep.  Looks like a rock impact has damaged the brushing, as Paul suggested. Hard to see anything - maybe the seam on the brushing is a bit separated?  Crazy that something so small can make so much noise.  The good news is that everything appears to be structurally sound - no apparent risk that the bracket or bolt will suddenly break.  I did the steering articulation test again.  This time I let my son put his hand on the control arm so he could feel it pop and vibrate every time the creaking sound happens.

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## FSHJNKY

> Spent more time under the Jeep.  Looks like a rock impact has damaged the brushing, as Paul suggested. Hard to see anything - maybe the seam on the brushing is a bit separated?  Crazy that something so small can make so much noise.  The good news is that everything appears to be structurally sound - no apparent risk that the bracket or bolt will suddenly break.  I did the steering articulation test again.  This time I let my son put his hand on the control arm so he could feel it pop and vibrate every time the creaking sound happens.


It may be minor but there is a ton of stress at that location. The bushing being damaged means the bolt isn't going through as smoothly during articulation and moved meant. It also means the little metal sleeve inside the bushing might be rubbing. There is also the chance that with the bushing being of kilter it could be causing it to rub in different areas. It also means that crap could've gotten in there and could be causing more problems. Good Luck.

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## MattJ

Yep - that's why the sound has been getting worse over time.  The bushing is probably grinding itself apart in there.

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## RalphTomaccio

Matt, no lower control arm skids? That's money well spent, and not that much either!

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## MattJ

I didn't realize there was such a thing as lower control arm skids.  Do they reduce clearance by much?

My bigger issue is that I simply can't bolt on any more armor.  I've got massive AEV steel bumpers in front and rear, full Metalcloak skid plating underneath, dual batteries . . . and next week 120 pounds of DOM steel rock sliders get bolted on.  It's like having four passengers at all times, even before I load the hi-lift jack and all my other recovery gear.

For overlanding treks, I'm at or above the GAWR before I even start packing for a trek (roof top tent, 50 pounds of water, cooking equipment, propane tanks, etc).  AEV is developing a heavy-duty suspension system for the JKU, so I might need to put that on my shopping list.

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## RalphTomaccio

> I didn't realize there was such a thing as lower control arm skids.  Do they reduce clearance by much?
> My bigger issue is that I simply can't bolt on any more armor.  I've got massive AEV steel bumpers in front and rear, full Metalcloak skid plating underneath, dual batteries . . . and next week 120 pounds of DOM steel rock sliders get bolted on.  It's like having four passengers at all times, even before I load the hi-lift jack and all my other recovery gear.


Reduce clearance? Minimally, not much more than the thickness of the metal they are made from. You can get weld-ons or those that use the bolt that is being used for the LCA. As for the weight, they are small and will not make a noticeable difference. I am surprised that whomever you had that did your skids didn't recommend LCA skids. They are a "no brainer"!

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## Rubicon

I will finally chime in and write that that last picture is nothing, so no real concern or noise should be coming from that. Take the bolt out and grease it ;) Seen KK Liberty make the same creaking sound and that is all it is...a dry pivot.

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## MattJ

> I will finally chime in and write that that last picture is nothing, so no real concern or noise should be coming from that. Take the bolt out and grease it ;) Seen KK Liberty make the same creaking sound and that is all it is...a dry pivot.


+10 points for Rubicon.  After I drenched that joint in WD40, the noise has noticeably dropped over the past 48 hours.  I'm sure a good greasing would be the complete fix.  What an interesting adventure this has been . . .

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## Rubicon

> +10 points for Rubicon.  After I drenched that joint in WD40, the noise has noticeably dropped over the past 48 hours.  I'm sure a good greasing would be the complete fix.  What an interesting adventure this has been . . .


What do I win? Haha :)

Just glad you figured it out ;)

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## Heavyopp

> +10 points for Rubicon.  After I drenched that joint in WD40, the noise has noticeably dropped over the past 48 hours.  I'm sure a good greasing would be the complete fix.  What an interesting adventure this has been . . .


Just remember WD40 is as good a cleaner/degreaser as anything  --  when that WD40 dries out that joint is going to be really dry

You definitely need to address that joint as soon as you can

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## MattJ

Is the joint under tension?  Can I just take the bolt out and grease it?  Or does it need to be up on a lift and require a special press to get the joint reassembled?  The last thing I want to do is take it apart in my driveway and find out I can't put it back together.

I'm taking it into for service next week to get the frame-mounted rock sliders installed.  I was planning to have it serviced then.

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## FSHJNKY

Just buy another factory control arm and have them toss it in. Not that hard at all.

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## Rubicon

> Is the joint under tension?  Can I just take the bolt out and grease it?  Or does it need to be up on a lift and require a special press to get the joint reassembled?  The last thing I want to do is take it apart in my driveway and find out I can't put it back together.
> 
> I'm taking it into for service next week to get the frame-mounted rock sliders installed.  I was planning to have it serviced then.


Depending on how it is parked, the bolt holes might shift a little bit upon removal, but a little manipulation and it should go back in with little effort. Just chock your wheel to help prevent any movement. A drift/punch will help get the bolt out and keep the holes lined up, plus can then be used to align the opening by prying to facilitate replacement ;)

I hope this helps and wish you good luck!

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## Giovanni

At a minimum, you can hose it down with a creeping lubricant. I find motorcycle chain lube to be excellent for dry joints. It flows in like a solvent and then sets up tacky. Use a little shot on your floor jack wheels and be amazed at how easily you can drag it around the garage floor.

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## MattJ

Speaking of beach driving on Nantucket, I found this Facebook page today:

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## MattJ

Problem and solution:

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## MattJ

This project is done!  I had the mashed control arm bracket repaired and added the EVO front control arm skids and rear shock mounts.  I also had pieces of the frame cut in two different places to ensure there is no friction with the sway bars in the future.I also want to say thank you to everyone who offered their time and expertise on helping me solve this problem.  It certainly was concerning to hear all the croaking and groaning coming from the control arm bushing when the bracket was mashed into it.  As you can see from my posts in this thread, it took me several days to figure out what was going on.  Hopefully this thread can help another ENH member in the future that hears the same mysterious sound . . .

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## Rubicon

Just glad for you that it is fixed. Noises can be frustrating to figure out sometimes.

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