# Get Out And Explore! > Tech Section >  Tech Talk Tires and Wheels - Lug Nuts/Tread/Ratings and more

## FSHJNKY

Are you thinking about buying tires? Have you bought tires but don't think anybody else should buy them? Do you know the best tire for off-roading? Do you have a tire question? If so this is the place to be. Don't play around with searching through 5000 posts. Look no further. Below is a collaboration of posts from this entire site regarding tires. The poll is here to help give an idea of what most people are running for tires and to help you make the best tire buying decision for you. Thanks for looking and happy reading.

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## FSHJNKY

I am running 35/12.5/17 TBC Mud Claws. They do great off-road but are noisy and their tread life is currently in question. I put a lot of miles on my Rubicon because it's my DD and I live at least an hour from any decent trails. That said, the price was right and the warranty, free balancing and rotations has paid for itself. I got my tires through NTB. They flex well down to 10 PSI and aren't bad in the snow. I would say I would buy the tires again in the future if it wasn't for a DD vehicle. My next tires will be something that can handle more mileage and maybe a bit less aggressive tread.

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## joemcd

I'm running bfg muds on the 90, I prefer the Goodyear wrangler duratracs that I had on the range rover.  They were good all around, and fantastic it snow.  I'll be checking out available tires for the LR3 soon, although I won't have  many choices with the 255/55 19 tire size.

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## sptrmike

> I'm running bfg muds on the 90, I prefer the Goodyear wrangler duratracs that I had on the range rover.  They were good all around, and fantastic it snow.  I'll be checking out available tires for the LR3 soon, although I won't have  many choices with the 255/55 19 tire size.


I know that feeling, I bought tires last year and I did'nt have a lot to choose from and i'm running 32's!

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## The Grinch

I have had a few sets on my truck over the last few years.....  Keep in mind all tires were used and on a 5500 pound rig.

Dunlop Mud Rovers 31x10.50 r 15.  Nice alround tire.  

Super swamper TSL Bias Ply 34x10.5 r15  My favorite tire so far.  Skinny ment good on and offroad.  Great on the trails and tuff.  Wore kinda fast on the street.

BFG Mud Terrains old style 33x12.50 r15  Hated them!  could feel the strain of wider tires on steering, Not great at anything. dry cracked fast.  

Gateway Gumbo Monster Mudders 35x14.5 r15.  Remeber these???  Did okay but being a 14.5 wide tire they found every rock in the trail.  Also got stuck a good amount with them.  Bias ply so kinda bouncey and loud.  

Good Year Wrangler MT 37x12.5 r16.5  So far I like them being a radial they ride good on road.  Tread pattern kinda stinks so grooving might be an option.  Good comprimise between a offroad and road tire.  Also one of the cheapest 37's out there because they were run on Military Hummers.  Not great at anything but as stated a good allaround tire so far.  




I use my truck for daily driving , hauling and Exploring.  My favorite tire for the trails around here is a tall and skinny Super Swamper or similar.  I am now experimenting with a little tamer tire for the increased comunting the truck will see.  I will say that my TSL's did not do well in snow or ice.

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## SideshowBob

35 12.5 15 MTRK's

So far I love them. They are surprisingly nice on the road as well.



Previous tires- I have run KM2's and Toyo Open Country MT's. The KM2's did very well but I wouldn't buy another set based on what I have seen their sidewalls do on other people's rigs.

The Open County MT's were a good MT on the road but kinda sucked in the woods in my opinion. The sidewall as so thick it was impossible to get them to flex even at like 8psi, when the bead would start to separate.

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## Rubicon

> I have had a few sets on my truck over the last few years.....  Keep in mind all tires were used and on a 5500 pound rig.
> 
> Dunlop Mud Rovers 31x10.50 r 15.  Nice alround tire.  
> 
> Super swamper TSL Bias Ply 34x10.5 r15  My favorite tire so far.  Skinny ment good on and offroad.  Great on the trails and tuff.  Wore kinda fast on the street.
> 
> BFG Mud Terrains old style 33x12.50 r15  Hated them!  could feel the strain of wider tires on steering, Not great at anything. dry cracked fast.  
> 
> Gateway Gumbo Monster Mudders 35x14.5 r15.  Remeber these???  Did okay but being a 14.5 wide tire they found every rock in the trail.  Also got stuck a good amount with them.  Bias ply so kinda bouncey and loud.  
> ...


I remember them :)

I agree with everything that you wrote, but wanted to warn you about the last tire--those military tires suck in the snow. I think it is the combination of tread pattern and hardness.

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## BananaPeelOut

This thread hasn't been talked on in a while, but on my old truck ( 2003 s10 ZR2) I had Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs and those things were the tits. Handled in the snow so well that I didn't miss my 4x4 when it was temporarily out of commission for some of the snow this past winter. Also, road noise was fairly subdued. Looking to replace the highway tires that came on my Taco with the Duratracs.

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## crmarczak

My first set of Goodyear DuraTracs got 85k miles and had still 4/32's left.  I don't do serious offroading so the side wall issue didnt matter.  I did rotate the tires religiously around 20k miles.

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## LEWIS439

currently running Mickey Thompson Baja ATZP3's 285/75/16 and well haven't got much mileage on them since I've been overseas awhile I will say the experiences I've had are very positive. Very good road manners, quiet and handled well in rain/snow and ice. Done some mild offroading before I left and was very happy with the grip they had on rock and hard pack earth can't say how well they do in light mud or sand but reviews I've read said they do shockingly well for an AT hybrid. Price was pretty reasonable on Extreme Terrain. Looking at your build they might not be aggressive enough for your desires but given my jeep is a daily driver I found them to be a very good On Road/ Off Road compromise.

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## NEVERLOST

Treadwright Guard Dog's? Reviews look pretty good, was wondering if anyone had any experience with them or thoughts? 


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## Rubicon

> Treadwright Guard Dog's? Reviews look pretty good, was wondering if anyone had any experience with them or thoughts? 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There should be plenty of information here on ENH alone from what I remember seeing  :Gotsearch:

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## NEVERLOST

> There should be plenty of information here on ENH alone from what I remember seeing


You are correct sir, I do see a plethora of threads on here now...still learning how to navigate ENH. Thanks Shawn


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## Rubicon

> You are correct sir, I do see a plethora of threads on here now...still learning how to navigate ENH. Thanks ShawnSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very glad you found some stuff, because sometimes the forum gets cluttered with unorganized crap and makes it hard to find anything, unless you find the right combination.
Good luck!

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## RalphTomaccio

*It has finally happened! After much research, comparing, and talking with others, I finally bit the bullet and bought a decent set of new shoes for my JKU. Between the RK lift, new EBC brake pads front and rear, TPMS sensors and lug nuts,* *and these tires,* *I think I've blown my budget for this year - and probably next year as well! Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention Spidertrax spacers and a Tom Woods Front DS. I'll get to check them out on a run this coming Sunday.

Tundra, would you say we're are pretty much tied in the length of time we went with our SRA's?



Nitto Ridge Grapplers - 285/70/17 Load Range C. They should serve me well. Noise on pavement is barely perceptible:*

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## BlueberryHill

General Tracker AT2  31X10.50-15 Load Range C

I've run these for a few years and was very satisfied with them. They are quiet on pavement and have great snow/ice performance, certified with the Mountain/Snowflake label.

What is most important here is that the off-road performance is good; mud, rock, snow, etc. I haven't felt the tires held me back.

Wear is tough to evaluate, as they were on a relatively light '88 YJ. There was about half the tread depth with over 30K on them, enough left so they were gladly bought by a co-worker.

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## mtyler11

I've run these close to 25k mi.  They have worn well, still have 14/32 of tread.  They did well in the snow last winter, do great on the rocks/dirt and mud.  Sidewalls have held up well.  
I'm on 265/75/16 C load (32" equivalent)  For a Jeep or mid-size truck they do well.  Even at street pressure they have some sidewall flex, as you air down they really start to flex.  This is the one Good news/Bad news with them...  on-road the soft sidewall results in a bit of lean in a corner.  I get more body-roll in corners from the tire than I do from the sway bar removal.  If you drive fast and wait till the last moment to change lanes and pretend that your truck or jeep is a race car, SLOW DOWN...  these tires would disappoint you as you can't hit a corner hot, you have to slow down BEFORE the turn.
But if you want a good all-around tire, these are great, and I will cry when GY retires them for a new model.

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## 93bronco

I run the Firestone Destination AT on 31x10.5r15. A good on road tire.Very nice road manners would not recommend for ANY off road use. See pic
Nathan's Phone Pic's 220.jpg

As you may be able to see I am missing a 2x3 area of tread to 2/32 or less... :Viking:  these tires have less than 1k miles and so far the hardest "off road" they saw was a few dirt roads. I have to take it to an "official" Firestone dealer that is an hour+ away so they can evaluate the tire to see if the warranty will cover it.

Anyway I did test it a bit off road after I lost the tread. Does OK at everything but mud. Any mud you will get stuck unless you have high RPM's to clear the mud. If you are looking at these tires go buy the General Grabbers AT2 same money usally and SO much better.

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## Rubicon

> I run the Firestone Destination AT on 31x10.5r15. A good on road tire.Very nice road manners would not recommend for ANY off road use. See pic
> Nathan's Phone Pic's 220.jpg
> 
> As you may be able to see I am missing a 2x3 area of tread to 2/32 or less... these tires have less than 1k miles and so far the hardest "off road" they saw was a few dirt roads. I have to take it to an "official" Firestone dealer that is an hour+ away so they can evaluate the tire to see if the warranty will cover it.
> 
> Anyway I did test it a bit off road after I lost the tread. Does OK at everything but mud. Any mud you will get stuck unless you have high RPM's to clear the mud. If you are looking at these tires go buy the General Grabbers AT2 same money usally and SO much better.


Ya their Destination MT is a _much_ tougher tire, so it is too bad they kind of failed with these, as I like supporting American/US companies when I can.
Thanks for your reviews :)

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## NotThePainter

Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2's baby.

Ask again in the spring.

And why yes, they're that awesome.

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## FreakinJeep

I've got two years of pretty hard wheeling on a set of Mastercraft Courser M/XTs. I'm told they're made by Cooper. I originally bought them because they're CHEAP. Pretty sure I got five tires and steel rims for like $1200.00. (I work at a shop that's a Cooper dealer, so I get better pricing, but they're fairly inexpensive regardless.).

They have held up well, and I've never lost a bead despite running 9-12psi on non-beadlocks. I run 35" x 12.5" x 15" on 8" wide wheels, so there's a lot of sidewall sticking out. 

They have some chunks taken out, but the treadwear has been good. They do not have as much traction as I'd like, and that is my major fault with them. They are definitely a harder compound, which is why they've been holding up, but I don't feel they have great traction on rocks until aired way down. They are not super flexible, to the point where I've had a lot of people wheeling with me ask if I was aired down when I was at 15 pounds.

I like them enough that I got the A/T version of them for my daily driver, but I think now that I have a DD and I mostly use the TJ for wheeling, I'm going to go with something a little more aggressive and a bit softer whenever I finally wear these things out.

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## farmer

I wanted to come and complain about my current experience with BF Goodrich A/T KO2s

Last set of tires were 315/70R17 KO1s on a 2005 F250 single cab 5.4, got 40k out of the set, which I was happy with on a 3/4 ton.

Put on a set of 35x12.5R17 KO2s last spring and 15k later they're not wearing as well as the last set. 

Not terribly impressed knowing that by 30k they'll be slicks @ $1200 a set, I'll be looking to go to another brand of ATs when the time comes

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## mtyler11

> I wanted to come and complain about my current experience with BF Goodrich A/T KO2sLast set of tires were 315/70R17 KO1s on a 2005 F250 single cab 5.4, got 40k out of the set, which I was happy with on a 3/4 ton.Put on a set of 35x12.5R17 KO2s last spring and 15k later they're not wearing as well as the last set. Not terribly impressed knowing that by 30k they'll be slicks @ $1200 a set, I'll be looking to go to another brand of ATs when the time comes


WOW... and that's with regular rotations?  Have you considered Tredwrights?  I know they're retreads and some don't trust them but there are just as many that swear by them... at 1/2 the price.

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## farmer

> WOW... and that's with regular rotations?  Have you considered Tredwrights?  I know they're retreads and some don't trust them but there are just as many that swear by them... at 1/2 the price.


Yup I'm pretty good about doing rotations.

Looked into Treadwrights years ago for another truck, never considered them for something this heavy, and I've always had good luck with BFGs until this set. I'll look into them again.

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## FSHJNKY

I am running Cooper STT Pro's 37/13.5/17 and so far I love them. They have a bunch of miles on them and still plenty of tread. They are fairly smooth and quiet for an MT and they have always balanced perfectly. They do incredible off road and aren't bad on road. So far so good.

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## BlueberryHill

> Looked into Treadwrights years ago for another truck, never considered them for something this heavy, and I've always had good luck with BFGs until this set. I'll look into them again.


I looked into Treadwrights a few years ago and decided there wasn't enough difference in cost to justify. I've run them before, years ago on an XJ when it was High-Tec Retreading and was happy with them, but some of the reviews were less than complimentary when I was considering them for Mary-Anne. I ended up with the Generals for not too much more money and was very happy with them.

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## mtyler11

> Yup I'm pretty good about doing rotations.
> 
> Looked into Treadwrights years ago for another truck, never considered them for something this heavy, and I've always had good luck with BFGs until this set. I'll look into them again.


Ranger is heavy?  The bead-to-bead remolds are much better than when they just recapped, but the limiting factor is still the carcasses.  BUT their reviews have improved since the BtB.




> I am running Cooper STT Pro's 37/13.5/17 and so far I love them. They have a bunch of miles on them and still plenty of tread. They are fairly smooth and quiet for an MT and they have always balanced perfectly. They do incredible off road and aren't bad on road. So far so good.


Have you had them in snow?

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## FSHJNKY

> Ranger is heavy?  The bead-to-bead remolds are much better than when they just recapped, but the limiting factor is still the carcasses.  BUT their reviews have improved since the BtB.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you had them in snow?


Yes I ran them last winter and they were better than I expected. Not as good as my Cooper ST Maxx's from a few winters ago but when it snowed I just aired them down a few PSI and had much better traction. Overall I would have no issue running them all winter.

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## farmer

> Ranger is heavy?



First post I said this was on my DD F250, it's not sig worthy!

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## mtyler11

> First post I said this was on my DD F250, it's not sig worthy!


OH, my bad....   :Tan:

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## dschad

I'm going to 33x10.50r15s, so there aren't that many options in m/t tires. 

Anybody running General Grabber X3s?  I keep flip-flopping between those and BFG KM2s.   My hesitation is that the X3s are about 10# heavier/tire.  I don't know if that means 10# better, or just heavier.  I also don't know if I'll notice that extra weight or not.

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## Rubicon

> I'm going to 33x10.50r15s, so there aren't that many options in m/t tires. 
> 
> Anybody running General Grabber X3s?  I keep flip-flopping between those and BFG KM2s.   My hesitation is that the X3s are about 10# heavier/tire.  I don't know if that means 10# better, or just heavier.  I also don't know if I'll notice that extra weight or not.


You might not but your brakes, suspension, engine, and thus fuel gauge will ;)

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## mtyler11

> I'm going to 33x10.50r15s, so there aren't that many options in m/t tires. 
> 
> Anybody running General Grabber X3s?  I keep flip-flopping between those and BFG KM2s.   My hesitation is that the X3s are about 10# heavier/tire.  I don't know if that means 10# better, or just heavier.  I also don't know if I'll notice that extra weight or not.


Have you considered changing rim sizes?

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## dschad

> Have you considered changing rim sizes?


I went round and round on that as part of the equation also.  The trouble with that approach (one of the troubles) is that I couldn't find any rim with a backspace that I wanted (5+), or at least not until you start to get into the really expensive rims.  I considered an adapter to convert to the JK wheels, etc etc.  

I sold the wheels and tires that I had on it, and ended up investing $100 in 9 stock TJ Canyon alloy rims (plus a steel 5 spoke stocker and a bent 10th Canyon), so I'm feeling that I should put these to use.  Feels good bringing it back to that stock look.

I've nothing against the BFGs, although they are a bit more costly, I was just interested in other options (esp as winter tires).

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## bob

I had 33x10.5x15 km2's on my TJ and loved them. They wore pretty good too, and did not cup or get all feathery. Very good tire IMO, but as you noted $$$

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## BlueberryHill

BFG KO2 33X10.50-15 Load Range C

I got these in the fall, and so far I'm very happy with them.

I switched from the Generals only because I wanted 10.50 width 33's and the AT2 isn't available in that size.

They are quiet on pavement and I expect good snow/ice performance as they are certified with the Mountain/Snowflake label.

So far the off-road performance is good; mud, smooth rock, etc. I haven't felt the tires held me back.

I'll update winter performance as soon as there's snow.

I keep forgetting to finish this post as promised. I LOVE THEM IN SNOW!

At FYGO they performed fantastic, in the slipperiest sections the KO2's were locked in. They even gave me the confidence to try the hard line on Papa. Turns out the tires aren't the issue; I don't have enough Jeep :) Catching the shackles on big rocks...

On the trip home that night (just over an hour from Bennington) the pavement performance was equally impressive. I highly recommend them for snow/ice performance.

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## dschad

> BFG KO2 33X10.50-15 Load Range C
> 
> I got these in the fall, and so far I'm very happy with them.
> 
> I switched from the Generals only because I wanted 10.50 width 33's and the AT2 isn't available in that size.
> 
> They are quiet on pavement and I expect good snow/ice performance as they are certified with the Mountain/Snowflake label.
> 
> So far the off-road performance is good; mud, smooth rock, etc. I haven't felt the tires held me back.
> ...


These seem to be pretty popular also.  I've considered picking up a used set as winter tires to start with, and if I feel the need I could later get some MTs for my summer tires.  

This would keep both sets lasting longer, figuring that I'll be sticking to the pavement half the year no need to wear down the MTs.

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## Xplor

> 35 12.5 15 MTRK's
> The Open County MT's were a good MT on the road but kinda sucked in the woods in my opinion. The sidewall as so thick it was impossible to get them to flex even at like 8psi, when the bead would start to separate.


Toyo tires open country MT is in my list of tires I'd like to try. Isn't it a good buy? I've seen some comparing it to Nitto trail grappler. If I am not mistaken Toyo weighs around 4000 lbs while Nitto weighs 3195 lbs.

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## bob

> Toyo tires open country MT is in my list of tires I'd like to try. Isn't it a good buy? I've seen some comparing it to Nitto trail grappler. If I am not mistaken Toyo weighs around 4000 lbs while Nitto weighs 3195 lbs.


That seems a bit heavy for tires. ;)

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## bob

> BFG KO2 33X10.50-15 Load Range C
> 
> I got these in the fall, and so far I'm very happy with them.
> 
> I switched from the Generals only because I wanted 10.50 width 33's and the AT2 isn't available in that size.
> 
> They are quiet on pavement and I expect good snow/ice performance as they are certified with the Mountain/Snowflake label.
> 
> So far the off-road performance is good; mud, smooth rock, etc. I haven't felt the tires held me back.
> ...


Any input as to winter performance yet?

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## Rubicon

> That seems a bit heavy for tires. ;)
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I was thinking the same thing, lol.

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## BlueberryHill

> Any input as to winter performance yet?


I keep forgetting to update that. The short answer:

I LOVE THEM IN SNOW!!!!!

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## sptrmike

> I keep forgetting to update that. The short answer:
> 
> I LOVE THEM IN SNOW!!!!!


A big reason for that is the TruTrac, I've been running these as my street tires for 7 years,when my YJ was open/open I would have to use 4wd quite a bit especially coming from a dead stop. After I put the TruTrac in I only really had to use 4wd once,7 plus inches  on the road and had not been plowed yet. I have used 4wd other than that time but it was just me playing in deep snow.

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## BlueberryHill

> A big reason for that is the TruTrac


I agree, to a point. The LSD makes a difference starting off and keeping momentum in deep snow, but what I was impressed with is the way they handle at speed where the LSD shouldn't matter. 

By the way; both together makes my steep driveway a breeze. After the thaw and freeze it's a luge run.

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## gary leblanc

was running BFG MT for 3 years ...and bought some Toyo  285 75 16 A T 's to run for the winter they seem just fine. but there not MT tires,.. going to pick up another set of rims and try these for the summer ..heard a lot of good talk about them...,

https://www.tires-easy.com/33-12.50-...iABEgLAQPD_BwE

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## Yipjeep

Looking to see if anyone is running the Falcon Wildpeak AT3. I've done some reading on them and folks seem to like the tires performance. Anyone have experience with this tire and have wheeled with it? Id appreciate some feedback, especially if you can compare it to the KO2, duratrac, or Cooper stt max. If you don't want to share publicly please send a PM.

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## Rubicon

> Looking to see if anyone is running the Falcon Wildpeak AT3. I've done some reading on them and folks seem to like the tires performance. Anyone have experience with this tire and have wheeled with it? Id appreciate some feedback, especially if you can compare it to the KO2, duratrac, or Cooper stt max. If you don't want to share publicly please send a PM.


Brian wrote how he was surprised they are so quite on the road. I have to agree as well.

They do perform good off road, and give a good bulge when aired down, even just at high teens for pressure. They ride nice, as in not bouncy. If I had to pick one area that they seem a little slippery, probably because they seem to be wearing great(re: longevity ;) is rock, though not nearly as bad as BFGoodrich, but probably on par if not slightly better than Goodyear and Cooper that I have also owned.

I would buy them again for sure. I just would not have Tire Warehouse ever touch them though :(

I hope this helps Mike, but please feel free to ask anything else, as i hope to help you make an educated big purchase.

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## Rooster

I recently picked up the Falkens as well, but don't really have enough miles for much of a review yet. They are very quiet on the road and ride pretty well, though maybe not quite as well as the highway tires they replaced. Snow traction seems good. Haven't had them one dirt or rock yet, though, so more to come once the weather is more favorable.

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## Yipjeep

Thanks for replies. I couldn't find anything on ENH about this tire and NOW I realized why, I was searching Falcon and not Falken. Well after spelling the brand correctly I found a couple threads on the Falken. Glad to hear folks are having good experience with this tire. Town Fair Tire is the shop that mentioned the Falken as an option, they said I could try them for 30 days and if I didn't like them I could switch to the tire I originally asked about, BFG KO2.  

Shawn, are you running a C load tire? The sizes I've been researching are an E load. I am concerned about the ride quality of the E with a JKU.

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## Yipjeep

> I recently picked up the Falkens as well, but don't really have enough miles for much of a review yet. They are very quiet on the road and ride pretty well, though maybe not quite as well as the highway tires they replaced. Snow traction seems good. Haven't had them one dirt or rock yet, though, so more to come once the weather is more favorable.


Scott, Thank you for reply. I appreciate feedback on the snow traction. I was attracted to this tire due to the snowflake rating. I haven't had highway tires on a Jeep in a long time, but do like a tire that runs a bit quieter than a MT. Was a bit uneasy about the tire recommendation from Town Fair Tire because they were pushing it and it was priced cheaper than the other brands under consideration.

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## FSHJNKY

I love my Cooper STT Pro's. They are awesome off-road, good on-road and are quieter than any tire that I have owned so far. I am definitely going to get another set when these are done. I have about 20k on them and they still have decent tread and are going on the Moab trip. Bob got a set in 35" so you can ask him about his experience with those and XJ_Dave just got a set of 37's. I air them down to between 8 - 12 depending on the wheeling and have had great experiences with them. 

I can't speak for the other tires, just the ones that I have now.

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## Rubicon

> Thanks for replies. I couldn't find anything on ENH about this tire and NOW I realized why, I was searching Falcon and not Falken. Well after spelling the brand correctly I found a couple threads on the Falken. Glad to hear folks are having good experience with this tire. Town Fair Tire is the shop that mentioned the Falken as an option, they said I could try them for 30 days and if I didn't like them I could switch to the tire I originally asked about, BFG KO2.  
> 
> Shawn, are you running a C load tire? The sizes I've been researching are an E load. I am concerned about the ride quality of the E with a JKU.


It's funny that I read your spelling, but knew what you meant ;)

I do have the 6-ply/Load C tires. I would not want to get a 1-ton 10-ply/Load E tire on a Wrangler, but your Jeep is heavier and besides that, the JKU rides so much nicer anyways, thus I would imagine stiffness of the tire would not make as big of a difference. As I am sure that you know, but just be aware that acceleration and stopping will be slower. Also gas mileage could go down. Plus if you ever have to change a tire....they are HEAVY, especially if mounting on a steel rim!

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## Kilo Sierra

I'm getting ready to run the Trans-NH Spring run and realized it's about a good time to upgrade the tires. Currently the Xterra has 265/70 R16 (31") and was looking to either go 265/75 R16 (32") or go as max as I can with a 285/75 R16 (33"). Looking @ KO2s.

On the Xterra forums most people run 285s, however every once in a while someone reports some frame rubbing at full lock, which I assume would be a problem with inspections. Also I cannot calibrate the speedo, so wondering in NH inspection on either is a fail (my speedo is running a tad high so the 32" would be almost perfect).

The rims on the Xterra are 7" wide and while most people run 285's anyways they are not recommended by the tire manufacturer (7.5" minimum). Wider rims (with my bolt pattern) would run into fender issues which would be very difficult to cover.

Is going 32" an issue with running in future events with ExploringNH, or should I just bite the bullet and go 33"s? I just don't want to play it safe and then find out I'd have problems going on runs after the fact.

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## ecgreen

> I'm getting ready to run the Trans-NH Spring run and realized it's about a good time to upgrade the tires. Currently the Xterra has 265/70 R16 (31") and was looking to either go 265/75 R16 (32") or go as max as I can with a 285/75 R16 (33"). Looking @ KO2s.
> 
> On the Xterra forums most people run 285s, however every once in a while someone reports some frame rubbing at full lock, which I assume would be a problem with inspections. Also I cannot calibrate the speedo, so wondering in NH inspection on either is a fail (my speedo is running a tad high so the 32" would be almost perfect).
> 
> The rims on the Xterra are 7" wide and while most people run 285's anyways they are not recommended by the tire manufacturer (7.5" minimum). Wider rims (with my bolt pattern) would run into fender issues which would be very difficult to cover.
> 
> Is going 32" an issue with running in future events with ExploringNH, or should I just bite the bullet and go 33"s? I just don't want to play it safe and then find out I'd have problems going on runs after the fact.


I can't see any inspection problems there unless the stick out beyond the fender flare. In my experince, frame rubbing is a function of wheel backspacing. Search around on your forums, or PM Tyler. I bet there is a magic backspace number so your 33s wont rub. Another option is to go for a skinnier tire, like 255/85r16. YOur wheels will also be right in spec with the 7 inch wheel. Tall and skinny makes for a great expedition rig IMHO.

For what its worth, 32s are just fine for wheeling class vi roads. I ran 235/85r16s for awhile and did some hard trails on them. Just gotta slow down and take a spot when you need it.

----------


## FSHJNKY

If you get 33's you aren't going to be able to go on any 34" tire runs, if you go to 34's you won't be able to go on 35" tire runs. Get what works best for your rig, if there are restrictions on a run it is probably for a reason and as such you probably shouldn't go. Lastly, you can always PM the trail leader and tell them that you are experienced and would love to go and let them tell you yes or no. It's up to the run leader to determine who they want to let on their runs.

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## ecgreen

> If you get 33's you aren't going to be able to go on any 34" tire runs, if you go to 34's you won't be able to go on 35" tire runs. Get what works best for your rig, if there are restrictions on a run it is probably for a reason and as such you probably shouldn't go. Lastly, you can always PM the trail leader and tell them that you are experienced and would love to go and let them tell you yes or no. It's up to the run leader to determine who they want to let on their runs.


True enough, but I can't imagine any run where 32s vs 33s would matter, yes?

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## jeep crawl

one thing to take into account with bigger tires ,comes more where on axles / bearings / stopping distance . like its been said go with makes you feel best about your rig and overall how it goes . if its a daily driver you need to take that into account too.

happy shopping, tons of tires out there

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## Kilo Sierra

> I can't see any inspection problems there unless the stick out beyond the fender flare. In my experince, frame rubbing is a function of wheel backspacing. Search around on your forums, or PM Tyler. I bet there is a magic backspace number so your 33s wont rub. Another option is to go for a skinnier tire, like 255/85r16. YOur wheels will also be right in spec with the 7 inch wheel. Tall and skinny makes for a great expedition rig IMHO.
> For what its worth, 32s are just fine for wheeling class vi roads. I ran 235/85r16s for awhile and did some hard trails on them. Just gotta slow down and take a spot when you need it.


Thanks everyone for the responses.

The 285/75/R16 is really close. I don't know of a single spacer that wouldn't cause fender trimming. I believe that for some people it comes down to the edge of the tire (with different manufacturers) with regard to frame rubbing. Even without spacers on stock rims, it would require a "Melt Mod" which is to melt the fender liner back enough to not cause a rub along the fender liner on the front fender at the rear where the splash guards have been removed.. It's a 5-minute mod so it's not a big deal.

I've thought about 255's but there are not many Tire manufacturers (and only one in AT). Some run them, others have run them and then switched to 285's. I've seen pictures with both and while I don't mind either, I'd prefer 265 width but alas they don't make them to 33's.

If it's not an inspection issue with anything, then I guess my only concern was that it seemed that the 33 was the magical tire size across a lot of my research. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't hurting my chances of running Class VI roads if I decided on 32's. It doesn't seem to from what you're saying. 

Once again thanks to everyone for their advice.

----------


## Kilo Sierra

> one thing to take into account with bigger tires ,comes more where on axles / bearings / stopping distance . like its been said go with makes you feel best about your rig and overall how it goes . if its a daily driver you need to take that into account too.
> 
> happy shopping, tons of tires out there


I have thought about that. That is definitely something I've been thinking about as well. It is my DD so it was why I've been thinking about 32 vs 33.

----------


## ecgreen

> Thanks everyone for the responses.
> 
> The 285/75/R16 is really close. I don't know of a single spacer that wouldn't cause fender trimming. I believe that for some people it comes down to the edge of the tire (with different manufacturers) with regard to frame rubbing. Even without spacers on stock rims, it would require a "Melt Mod" which is to melt the fender liner back enough to not cause a rub along the fender liner on the front fender at the rear where the splash guards have been removed.. It's a 5-minute mod so it's not a big deal.
> 
> I've thought about 255's but there are not many Tire manufacturers (and only one in AT). Some run them, others have run them and then switched to 285's. I've seen pictures with both and while I don't mind either, I'd prefer 265 width but alas they don't make them to 33's.
> 
> If it's not an inspection issue with anything, then I guess my only concern was that it seemed that the 33 was the magical tire size across a lot of my research. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't hurting my chances of running Class VI roads if I decided on 32's. It doesn't seem to from what you're saying. 
> 
> Once again thanks to everyone for their advice.


Unless you plan on running with the big rigs (like CDA and FSHJNKY), 32s are totally doable on most class vi roads. 32s and skids and sliders can take you far...very far. Heck, I have seen Glenn do AMAZING things on 31s. Tyler wheels 32s like a champ! (but still 33s are cool...lol thats the voice in yer head!). I ran 32s and good armor for a few years and had a blast. Now, do I enjoy my 33s? Yes! There is a difference in that 1/2 inch extra clearance. Who knows, as has been said, go with what you think is good for your style. Most important part is...have fun!

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## higgo

There is not much difference between a 33 and a 32 and many tires that are sold as 33s actually measure 32.

As most have said, 33/32 is all you'll need on all but a handful of class 6 roads. 


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## Mach2NH

And the handful is oh so much fun.

----------


## FreakinJeep

> There is not much difference between a 33 and a 32 and many tires that are sold as 33s actually measure 32.
> 
> As most have said, 33/32 is all you'll need on all but a handful of class 6 roads. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For what it's worth, I measured my Mastercraft takeoff 35s at 34", and the Pitbull 37s I'm putting on now actually measure 37.

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## mtyler11

> I have thought about that. That is definitely something I've been thinking about as well. It is my DD so it was why I've been thinking about 32 vs 33.


I've been wheeling on 265/75/16 Duratracs for several yrs.  No issues.  The rubbing at lock (on 33s) some talk of is Very minor and due to tire-rim choice.  On stock rim the KO shouldnt rub.  Slap on a 2 to 3 inch lift and lca cam bolts and you're good.  You can also do a little trim to the liner for even more room.  Theres a writeup on CF, I'll link when i get to my computer.  
Biggest need on more than stock trail is skids & sliders.  
The size difference of 32 to 33 is not enough to sweat with the short wheelbase of an X...  do you have Offroad pkg?

----------


## Rubicon

Like I always say, "skid plates first".

As it has been stated, the difference between a true 32" and a 33" is negligible.

I was on a mission a few years back to prove that you don't need 33+ inch tires to do 80% of the Class VI roads, so I wheeled with 31's then 30's and ended up on a size that I started wheeling on 34 years ago...235/75R15(~29") and did this for over two years, just to show it can be done. Simply have to drive accordingly ;) Experience can make this doable!
I had more fun too, because it was more challenging, since I had to always pick different/better lines.

To answer your rim width question. I like running skinnier rims, because it allows the tires to protect them and helps keep them from popping a bead as easily. So you might be able to run even lower tire pressures, which is a good thing for off-road. I have run 7" wide rims with up to a 12.5" wide tire. Just need to run lower tire pressure for a more even tire wear, which gives a better ride, albeit maybe not the best fuel mileage as a result.

I agree with Sean, I would run 255's if I were you, as this potentially solves body contact, rim width, and like Scott wrote, the many issues with added weight.

I hope this helps and wish you good luck in whatever you decide on.

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## BlueberryHill

> Heck, I have seen Glenn do AMAZING things on 31s.


Stop, you're making me blush...  :Redface: 

I've switched to 33's, but you're spot on, I went a lot of places on those 31's. I believe that wheeling with the smaller tires helped in the learning process.




> There is not much difference between a 33 and a 32 and many tires that are sold as 33s actually measure 32.



Yup, my 33" KO2's are listed at 32.4", and probably closer to 32" anyway. (10.50X33-15)




> The size difference of 32 to 33 is not enough to sweat ...


Bingo! I agree.

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## BlueberryHill

> Like I always say, "skid plates first".
> 
> As it has been stated, the difference between a true 32" and a 33" is negligible.
> 
> I was on a mission a few years back to prove that you don't need 33+ inch tires to do 80% of the Class VI roads, so I wheeled with 31's then 30's and ended up on a size that I started wheeling on 34 years ago...235/75R15(~29") and did this for over two years, just to show it can be done. Simply have to drive accordingly ;) Experience can make this doable!
> I had more fun too, because it was more challenging, since I had to always pick different/better lines.
> 
> To answer your rim width question. I like running skinnier rims, because it allows the tires to protect them and helps keep them from popping a bead as easily. So you might be able to run even lower tire pressures, which is a good thing for off-road. I have run 7" wide rims with up to a 12.5" wide tire. Just need to run lower tire pressure for a more even tire wear, which gives a better ride, albeit maybe not the best fuel mileage as a result.
> 
> ...


You proved a valid point when you were wheeling on 29's (28?), and that is; while tires are everything, they also can cover up a lot of mistakes. I wheeled my XJ on stock 235's years ago, and learned a lot. Running the 31's on Mary-Anne for a few years taught me that skids and line choice is key. I agree; I think one should start with a minimum configuration and build up AFTER learning the ropes.

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## higgo

> I had more fun too, because it was more challenging, since I had to always pick different/better lines


Truth. 

It's not how hard the trails are, it's how hard the trails are *for you*.  Over build, and you walk over everything and it's boring. Then you sell your rig and give up wheeling because there isn't enough challenge. 

Several in here have downsized for that reason. You know who you are... 





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## ecgreen

> Truth. 
> 
> It's not how hard the trails are, it's how hard the trails are *for you*.  Over build, and you walk over everything and it's boring. Then you sell your rig and give up wheeling because there isn't enough challenge. 
> 
> Several in here have downsized for that reason. You know who you are... 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is true! I am currently building a stocker rig to run 31s on (with lots of skids and sliders). My rig with 33s wqill be updated to crawler status with 35s hopefully in the next few years. Best of both worlds 8-)

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## mtyler11

> You proved a valid point when you were wheeling on 29's (28?), and that is; while tires are everything, they also can cover up a lot of mistakes. I wheeled my XJ on stock 235's years ago, and learned a lot. Running the 31's on Mary-Anne for a few years taught me that skids and line choice is key. I agree; I think one should start with a minimum configuration and build up AFTER learning the ropes.


Speak the TRUTH brother!!!!  But it sure is funny (after the fact) to see the look on your & brother's face when you nearly biff it because you can ALMOST make it ....  (freeze...)  
.
.
.
.
for a few minutes there, I was afraid we were going to be all the king's horses with humpty dumpty.....

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## ecgreen

> Speak the TRUTH brother!!!!  But it sure is funny (after the fact) to see the look on your & brother's face when you nearly biff it because you can ALMOST make it ....  (freeze...)  
> .
> .
> .
> .
> for a few minutes there, I was afraid we were going to be all the king's horses with humpty dumpty.....


No the best look on someones face is when they are AIRBORNE on 32s in a Nissan!

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## higgo

> No the best look on someones face is when they are AIRBORNE on 32s in a Nissan!


There is no glory to be had in making an obstacle if you have the biggest rig, but there is plenty of glory available if you are the smallest guy that walks over something when everybody expects you to fail. 

And if you do fail, so what? You have the smallest rig.

The real downside to small is that you'll probably drag a bit. That and the fact that small tires don't look as mean. 

I'm talking myself into a sleeper on 31s... 




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## BlueberryHill

> Speak the TRUTH brother!!!!  But it sure is funny (after the fact) to see the look on your & brother's face when you nearly biff it because you can ALMOST make it ....  (freeze...)  
> .
> .
> .
> .
> for a few minutes there, I was afraid we were going to be all the king's horses with humpty dumpty.....


If it's easy, anyone can do it  :Ridinghorse: 

That was a major pucker situation!

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## mtyler11

> ... a "Melt Mod" ...  I've thought about 255's but there are not many Tire manufacturers (and only one in AT). Some run them, others have run them and then switched to 285's. I've seen pictures with both and while I don't mind either, I'd prefer 265 width but alas they don't make them to 33's.


an alternative to melt mod....   don't fear the skinny tire....  OR pick up a spare set of rims... then you can run the wicked-est mud tire you desire while having a 265/70 AT or HY tire for daily use....

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## mtyler11

> No the best look on someones face is when they are AIRBORNE on 32s in a Nissan!


BHAHAHAHA.....   

How I (think) I looked... 



How I felt....

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## Kilo Sierra

> I've been wheeling on 265/75/16 Duratracs for several yrs.  No issues.  The rubbing at lock (on 33s) some talk of is Very minor and die to tire-rim choice.  On stock rim the KO shouldnt rub.  Slap on a 2 to 3 inch lift and lca cam bolts and you're good.  You can also do a little trim to the liner for even more room.  Theres a writeup on CF, I'll link when i get to my computer.  
> Biggest need on more than stock trail is skids & sliders.  
> The size difference of 32 to 33 is not enough to sweat with the short wheelbase of an X...  do you have Offroad pkg?


Unfortunately it's the S model so not currently a locker in the rear. I've been looking into a rear axle swap with a re-gear to 3.69, or throwing ARB front and rear lockers and re-gearing the c200 to 4.10. The former is easier but axles are becoming harder to find. It's something on my extended to-do/research list.

I've been doing my research on thenewx, which has been really great.

I've currently have extended Radflo's for about a 2.5" lift, SPC UCAs and the adjustable cam bolts installed (through Greg @ PRG). Hefty front aluminum bumper installed (winch on the way), a Maxterra swing arm rear bumper ordered, P&P sliders installed, with Hefty Aluminum skids about to be ordered. I know...skids and sliders...a little backwards...

With all the tire research there I was just making sure about a more local advice. I thought I had ruled out 255s but with all of your thoughts I'll take another look at it.

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## Kilo Sierra

> Like I always say, "skid plates first".
> I have run 7" wide rims with up to a 12.5" wide tire. Just need to run lower tire pressure for a more even tire wear, which gives a better ride, albeit maybe not the best fuel mileage as a result.
> I agree with Sean, I would run 255's if I were you, as this potentially solves body contact, rim width, and like Scott wrote, the many issues with added weight.
> I hope this helps and wish you good luck in whatever you decide on.


The Cooper Discoverer Tire in 255/85 R16 (the only AT I can find) was listed at 59lbs., which is slightly more than the KO2's at 285 that were 58.4lbs.. As far as I can tell, it's pretty similar in terms of weight and MPG. I remember reading the guy who switched from 255 to 285 wrote he didn't notice any change.

Now I'm wondering with running a 255 I should expect a little less weight capability?

----------


## Rubicon

> Truth.
> It's not how hard the trails are, it's how hard the trails are *for you*.  Over build, and you walk over everything and it's boring. Then you sell your rig and give up wheeling because there isn't enough challenge. 
> Several in here have downsized for that reason. You know who you are...


Exactly!







> ...but there is plenty of glory available if you are the smallest guy that walks over something when everybody expects you to fail...


Been there, done that ;)






> The Cooper Discoverer Tire in 255/85 R16 (the only AT I can find) was listed at 59lbs., which is slightly more than the KO2's at 285 that were 58.4lbs.. As far as I can tell, it's pretty similar in terms of weight and MPG. I remember reading the guy who switched from 255 to 285 wrote he didn't notice any change.
> Now I'm wondering with running a 255 I should expect a little less weight capability?


I have always liked Cooper tires. My girlfriend got the S/T MAXX last year for her new-to-her 2012 Jeep JK 2-door and she really likes them. They have been great in the snow too.

The 255/85R16 S/T MAXX looks to be 58 pounds on their website. Being load E/10-ply rated, I can tell you that hers are not light. Also each tire in the size you are looking at states that it hold 3,415 pounds, so that is 13,660 total weight capability, which I believe is way more than your vehicle should ever need, thus no worries there :)

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## mtyler11

> ... not currently a locker in the rear. I've been looking into a rear axle swap with a re-gear to 3.69, or throwing ARB front and rear lockers and re-gearing the c200 to 4.10. The former is easier but axles are becoming harder to find. It's something on my extended to-do/research list.
> ... I've currently have extended Radflo's for about a 2.5" lift, SPC UCAs and the adjustable cam bolts installed (through Greg @ PRG). Hefty front aluminum bumper installed (winch on the way), a Maxterra swing arm rear bumper ordered, P&P sliders installed, with Hefty Aluminum skids about to be ordered. I know...skids and sliders...a little backwards... ...


I can tell you from experience, the HF Aluminum skids are nice, but if you think you might, even a little, run moderate to hard trails, you want steel engine and gas skids at a minimum...  Being you've already got the winch bumper and Maxterra's swingout, I suspect you'll be tackling mod at least...  I managed to give the gas tank a real good hit and the aluminum gave way... it's because of how they designed the ear mount to the frame... not enough structure tying it together... the engine skid I taco'd on a C6, repetitive strikes... it lasted for 2 yrs, but with something like that you want it to last alot longer than that.... The transmission and transfer case are fine to have aluminum.



> The Cooper Discoverer Tire in 255/85 R16 (the only AT I can find) was listed at 59lbs., which is slightly more than the KO2's at 285 that were 58.4lbs.. As far as I can tell, it's pretty similar in terms of weight and MPG. I remember reading the guy who switched from 255 to 285 wrote he didn't notice any change.
> Now I'm wondering with running a 255 I should expect a little less weight capability?


For the weight of a midsize truck/suv, a Load C in 255/85 is plenty.... Load E is just gravy....   Keep in mind, just because someone says its an MT doesn't mean it really is... or won't wear and drive like an AT....

eg. TireRack categorizes the Goodyear Duratrac as a Commercial Traction...  it's a hybrid of AT & MT....  Even the BFG MT KM3 have great on-road traction (per many reviews)... A friend runs Toyo MTs on his Cherokee and he swears hands down, the best traction tire ever, in nearly all conditions.  Only thing he admits is that premium snow tires do slightly better on ice...

If you are concerned about mpg, just run 32s.  it won't severely hamper you BECAUSE of the shorter wheelbase....  I got an Xterra in the fall, and the maneuverability of the X over the Frontier is incredible.  Things I touch in the Frontier (with 2.5" actual lift) touch in the X with NO LIFT.  Both on 32s.... once the lift is complete, the X won't touch in those spots at all....  Then when you decide which direction you will go (m226 axles or regear c200) by then you'll probably be ready for new tires anyway...  

ohbytheway.... 4.10 would be overkill for 33" tires... RR has 3.69 available for c200 now....  The guys singing 4.10 on 33s (in an automatic) are only worried about crawl ratio and sacrifice highway/mpg....

----------


## NotThePainter

> Over build, and you walk over everything and it's boring. Then you sell your rig and give up wheeling because there isn't enough challenge.


This is something to really watch out for. Agnes wound up where she for various reasons, but she is seriously overbuilt for most of the Class VI roads. That's ok, I take on harder stuff on private property runs, but yeah, she can walk over most stuff and that actually gets boring. Then you find the hard stuff and that can sometimes be terrifying.

Here she is doing something not terrifying at Rausch Creek last summer. This was actually pretty easy. But I encountered so many obstacles down there I wouldn't attempt because of fear, not because I thought she couldn't do them.

----------


## Kilo Sierra

> I can tell you from experience, the HF Aluminum skids are nice, but if you think you might, even a little, run moderate to hard trails, you want steel engine and gas skids at a minimum...  Being you've already got the winch bumper and Maxterra's swingout, I suspect you'll be tackling mod at least...  I managed to give the gas tank a real good hit and the aluminum gave way... it's because of how they designed the ear mount to the frame... not enough structure tying it together... the engine skid I taco'd on a C6, repetitive strikes... it lasted for 2 yrs, but with something like that you want it to last alot longer than that.... The transmission and transfer case are fine to have aluminum.
> 
> 
> For the weight of a midsize truck/suv, a Load C in 255/85 is plenty.... Load E is just gravy....   Keep in mind, just because someone says its an MT doesn't mean it really is... or won't wear and drive like an AT....
> 
> eg. TireRack categorizes the Goodyear Duratrac as a Commercial Traction...  it's a hybrid of AT & MT....  Even the BFG MT KM3 have great on-road traction (per many reviews)... A friend runs Toyo MTs on his Cherokee and he swears hands down, the best traction tire ever, in nearly all conditions.  Only thing he admits is that premium snow tires do slightly better on ice...
> 
> If you are concerned about mpg, just run 32s.  it won't severely hamper you BECAUSE of the shorter wheelbase....  I got an Xterra in the fall, and the maneuverability of the X over the Frontier is incredible.  Things I touch in the Frontier (with 2.5" actual lift) touch in the X with NO LIFT.  Both on 32s.... once the lift is complete, the X won't touch in those spots at all....  Then when you decide which direction you will go (m226 axles or regear c200) by then you'll probably be ready for new tires anyway...  
> 
> ohbytheway.... 4.10 would be overkill for 33" tires... RR has 3.69 available for c200 now....  The guys singing 4.10 on 33s (in an automatic) are only worried about crawl ratio and sacrifice highway/mpg....


Thanks for the info! I'll definitely look at going steel in certain areas and aluminum in others. It's good to hear real world experience over just researching.

I didn't realize RR had added 3.69 for the c200. When I first started planning they only offered the 4.10, which was why I was going that way. I kind of regret not picking up the Pro-4x, not realizing the difference in rears at the time.

It's funny about the Duratracs, because when I bought my last tires I had wanted them and the guy was like "Those are commercial Tires. Nobody runs those." I always get a little nervous when I'm looking at MT's because of the snow. I saw one of my co-workers was running MT's on his Jeep this winter and was going to ask how they were performing. Some times the Girlfriend borrows the X so I wanted to make sure the traction isn't going to give out on her.

----------


## mtyler11

> Thanks for the info! I'll definitely look at going steel in certain areas and aluminum in others. It's good to hear real world experience over just researching.
> 
> I didn't realize RR had added 3.69 for the c200. When I first started planning they only offered the 4.10, which was why I was going that way. I kind of regret not picking up the Pro-4x, not realizing the difference in rears at the time.
> 
> It's funny about the Duratracs, because when I bought my last tires I had wanted them and the guy was like "Those are commercial Tires. Nobody runs those." I always get a little nervous when I'm looking at MT's because of the snow. I saw one of my co-workers was running MT's on his Jeep this winter and was going to ask how they were performing. Some times the Girlfriend borrows the X so I wanted to make sure the traction isn't going to give out on her.


Ya, at this point RR offers (in c200) .13 .36 .69 & 4.10   Interesting, teh .69 indicates its a Nissan gear versus Steven's private supplier for the 4.10 and 3.73 & 4.56 for the m226...  I had heard rumors nissan was moving away from the Dana center, which is a shame, as that will end hte option of TruTrac in the rear...

On the Frontier forum, Duratracs are one of the main tires, along with BFG.  They are a good all-around tire.  Great dry, wet, mud & rock traction.  Snow is pretty good, ice is fair.  
Wear on them has been very good.  The Frontier has had them for 3 yrs.  30k mi and they're still at 12/32, so still over 1/2 treadlife (full tread is 18/32).  Running Load C.  There is a little sidewall lean in the corners, about the same as a Pmetric (suv/car) tire.  
When you replace your tires, no matter what you swap to, go easy the first few days in the corners as you get to feel how the tires react.  Swapping back&forth from the Frontier to the X I have to remind myself they lean & turn in differently......

----------


## Rubicon

A lot of the what I call crossover tires(less serious MT/more aggressive AT) have the Three-Peak Mountain Snow Flake(3PMSF) rating/symbol, so that ensures that it will perform the best in those conditions, but still obviously not as good as a dedicated snow/winter tire. Thus you will want to look/check for that, if this is a concern. Again, good luck in whatever you get.

3pmsf.png

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## ecgreen

> A lot of the what I call crossover tires(less serious MT/more aggressive AT) have the Three-Peak Mountain Snow Flake(3PMSF) rating/symbol, so that ensures that it will perform the best in those conditions, but still obviously not as good as a dedicated snow/winter tire. Thus you will want to look/check for that, if this is a concern. Again, good luck in whatever you get.
> 
> 3pmsf.png


I have had great luck with Cooper St Maxx in the snow. The stt pro...not so much of course

----------


## Rubicon

> ...I have always liked Cooper tires. My girlfriend got the S/T MAXX last year for her new-to-her 2012 Jeep JK 2-door and she really likes them. *They have been great in the snow too.*...





> I have had great luck with Cooper St Maxx in the snow...


I see a pattern starting here ;)

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## FSHJNKY

I am on my 3rd set of Coopers. First set was Cooper ST's which were decent on road and acceptable off-road. I sold these and switched over to Cooper STT Pros which I love. They are decent on road and awesome offroad. They have worn well and I am now on my second set of Cooper STT Pros because of my experiences with the first set.

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## ecgreen

> I am on my 3rd set of Coopers. First set was Cooper ST's which were decent on road and acceptable off-road. I sold these and switched over to Cooper STT Pros which I love. They are decent on road and awesome offroad. They have worn well and I am now on my second set of Cooper STT Pros because of my experiences with the first set.


I liked my stt pros alot.l off-road
 Super sticky

----------


## ecgreen

> I see a pattern starting here ;)


There really is no other tire like it on the market right now thatvI am aware of. There are a true hybrid tire. They are very road friendly and super tough off road. They also wear very well for an almost mud tire. I would say the duratracs are the next closest thing.

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## atvspeed4

We are running the Centennial (kanati) trail hog in a 37 on two of our trucks. Similar concept to the duratrac but balance better and quieter. Have been better in the snow too

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## jeepster

I just picked up a set of Kanati mud hogs for better on the road driving.  once I start driving it I'll update to how they ride and handle off road.

Retired my Kevlar MTRs

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## dun_right

> I love my Cooper STT Pro's. They are awesome off-road, good on-road and are quieter than any tire that I have owned so far. I am definitely going to get another set when these are done. I have about 20k on them and they still have decent tread and are going on the Moab trip. Bob got a set in 35" so you can ask him about his experience with those and XJ_Dave just got a set of 37's. I air them down to between 8 - 12 depending on the wheeling and have had great experiences with them. 
> 
> I can't speak for the other tires, just the ones that I have now.


Are you running beadlocks or nah?

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## JeepFreak81

Curious if anyone has run Treadwright tires....I'm seriously considering a set in the spring, would love some input.  The Jeep community seems to like them, especially for the cost.

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## Rubicon

> Curious if anyone has run Treadwright tires....I'm seriously considering a set in the spring, would love some input.  The Jeep community seems to like them, especially for the cost.


Drove from Dover, NH to Columbia South America in a D110 with them, so ya, we liked them. No flats(had 2 spares and wheeled Rausch Creek on the way down), never had to add air, never rebalanced(and let me tell you...the roads were not nice!), wore like iron, gripped well. No problems and no delamination(early models). Two thumbs up from us. Would run them again.

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## bhd6th

Jeepfreak, I had treadwright guad dogs  on my 02 chevy 1500 which saw plenty of moderate off roading, and TONS of driving I90 from lowell to albany in the ugly winter of 2014-2015 (had to visit the old lady while i was in college). we are talking 4-8 inches at 30-60mph sustained, late at night. 

Those tires kick major ass, especially for the price, especially with kedge grip. IF you run them for a million miles over a few sets, maybe you'd see some issues with one, but my experience was EXCEPTIONAL. THat being said i don't care about noise. they were noisy once worn.

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## bob

Until I stop seeing shards of retreads on the interstates, for an on road vehicle I will not use Treadwright. 
Yes, LOTS of good feedback on them to be sure, and for an offroad trailer queen, hell ya for the savings.

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## Rubicon

> Until I stop seeing shards of retreads on the interstates, for an on road vehicle I will not use Treadwright. 
> Yes, LOTS of good feedback on them to be sure, and for an offroad trailer queen, hell ya for the savings.


Those are 18-wheelers caps. TreadWright no longer uses just the tread portion "caps". They are remanufactured down the sidewall now...just so you all know ;)

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## JeepFreak81

> Jeepfreak, I had treadwright guad dogs  on my 02 chevy 1500 which saw plenty of moderate off roading, and TONS of driving I90 from lowell to albany in the ugly winter of 2014-2015 (had to visit the old lady while i was in college). we are talking 4-8 inches at 30-60mph sustained, late at night. 
> 
> Those tires kick major ass, especially for the price, especially with kedge grip. IF you run them for a million miles over a few sets, maybe you'd see some issues with one, but my experience was EXCEPTIONAL. THat being said i don't care about noise. they were noisy once worn.


Ya I don't care about noise either and those are exactly the ones I was looking at...so they're on my radar once I put a small lift in next spring hopefully. 



> Until I stop seeing shards of retreads on the interstates, for an on road vehicle I will not use Treadwright. 
> Yes, LOTS of good feedback on them to be sure, and for an offroad trailer queen, hell ya for the savings.


Not that the internet crowd is all inclusive but I've never heard of that happening with these, When I first heard about them I had the same thoughts though.




> Those are 18-wheelers caps. TreadWright no longer uses just the tread portion "caps". They are remanufactured down the sidewall now...just so you all know ;)


Good to know!  I knew they weren't the same as caps but didn't know that's how they were re-manufactured.

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## mtyler11

> Good to know!  I knew they weren't the same as caps but didn't know that's how they were re-manufactured.


The only thing bad I've heard about them was they can be hard to balance.  But that was back when they were still doing caps and transitioning over to full molds.  
Just be sure to inspect them upon arrival and use a good, trusted tire shop.  If they complain about 1 tire taking alot more weight to balance out, call TW.  
Again, 90%of the negative stuff is from several yrs ago during the changeover.  I expect a new process to have some teething pains

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## ecgreen

I've almost pulled the trigger on treadwrights so many times. SOmething always stops me

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## BlueberryHill

> I've almost pulled the trigger on treadwrights so many times. SOmething always stops me


For me; it was that there wasn't enough of a savings over top of the line tires (BFG KO2'S) at Sullivan by the time mounting and lifetime balance and rotation are figured in.

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## Rubicon

> The only thing bad I've heard about them was they can be hard to balance.  But that was back when they were still doing caps and transitioning over to full molds.  
> Just be sure to inspect them upon arrival and use a good, trusted tire shop.  If they complain about 1 tire taking alot more weight to balance out, call TW.  
> Again, 90%of the negative stuff is from several yrs ago during the changeover.  I expect a new process to have some teething pains


As I am sure you know Tyler, but for the benefit of our readers...trying to balance tires at the rim will always take more weight than needed. A much better way to reduce the amount of balancing weight and to never have to balance them again is to use balancing beads. Plus they:
* are cheaper than conventional balancing
* no ugly weights to mark up your wheels
* no weights to fly off
* no need to take the time and gas to go back to the tire shop each time for re-balancing
* no risk of damage to your wheels from each trip to the garage
* tires last longer since they are always balanced
* steering components last longer because they are not being shaken by out of balance tires
* will even automatically compensate the balance if you get some snow or mud stuck to your rim

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## m42rima

Anyone had bad experiences with their Coopers yet or is it all just good? KO2s seem just a bit too aggressive for what I want to do.

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## jeep crawl

take a look @ milestar 

personnel use some type of sand tire house used when they mounted and balanced with that

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## Rubicon

> Anyone had bad experiences with their Coopers yet or is it all just good? KO2s seem just a bit too aggressive for what I want to do.


I never had or seen any real concern with Cooper, and Erin loves her's, so I would say that they are all good experiences.

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## Goat

> A much better way to reduce the amount of balancing weight and to never have to balance them again is to use balancing beads.


Snake oil.

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## Rubicon

> Snake oil.


Nope, been doing it for many years, and all the truckers for way longer ;)

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## Goat

Ahh, yes. Nothing makes a point better than anecdotal evidence.

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## Rubicon

> Ahh, yes. Nothing makes a point better than anecdotal evidence.


Well the science is proven, research has been done, and thus the facts have been established. Just because maybe you don't believe the truth, does not make it unreal. Point is, there is enough evidence to show otherwise. If you personally think that this is the informal term you used, 'snake oil', than you don't have to use them. I use them regardless because:

* it is way cheaper than conventional balancing
* no ugly weights to mark up your wheels
* no weights to fly off
* you do it only once(no need to ever re-balance again!)
* no need to take the time and gas to go back to the tire shop each time
* no risk of cosmetic damage to your tires and/or wheels from each trip to the garage(ask me how I know this)
* tires last longer since they are always balanced
* steering components last longer because they are not being shaken by out of balance tires
* will even automatically compensate the balance if you get some snow or mud stuck to your rim
* will always have a smooth ride
* won't clump like the powder alternatives(like Equal)

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## Goat

> ...than you don't have to use them.


Beads have drawbacks, wheel has to be driven past the first harmonic before the beads become effective, prior to that they make imbalance worse. This may or may not be possible with your tire/wheel combination. Secondly, if you do exceed first harmonic then it's single plane balance and not dual. Wheel weights are a first order solution and preferable. So, rest assured I won't use beads.




> Well the science is proven, research has been done, and thus the facts have been established.


Dynamics of rotating machinery is a first principle, one doesn't research basic laws when trying to develop a product. 




> Just because maybe you don't believe the truth, does not make it unreal.


That's exactly what the folk, who thought airplanes fly according to Bernoulli's principle, said and how did that turn out? Anyway back to tire talk...

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## Rubicon

They do have some "drawbacks", just like the many for clip-on or sticky weights, and like a lot of other things do in the world too ;)

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## TonYJ

I've only ever had one set of tires balanced, they came on my truck when I bought it new years ago, the tires on it now are not balanced and I can run 80+ with a coffee on the resting console.  Always mount my own tires, mostly used or take offs but several new sets too, and never been disappointed enough with the ride to justify paying someone to balance them. Heck most of the time I leave the old weights on so i don't scar up the wheel trying to take them off.
Even the bias ply 40" LTB's on my old dodge smooth out on the road once they warm up and the flat spots even out, when I first mounted them I didn't dare go far enough to get them warmed up because I thought the wheels were falling off. I ended up dumping like 3 cup fulls of high density air-soft bbs into each of them and took it for another run. It was exactly the same... I kept going knowing that it was the tires not something falling off the truck and after 10 or 15 miles around town they softened up and drove great. Every time its parked for a few days or more its the same thing, white knuckles to the trails and smooth rollin home. Maybe i'm just used to it from always driving junk.
If it was free I would just to be able to say "Yeah, there balanced". I don't see it necessary. If a tire is out of round or defectively built no lead weight or internal balancing is going to fix it.



Something that influenced this thought process was in high school votech. There was a brand new Hunter dynamic balancer. We did the staffs oil changes and tires. If you balanced all 4 new tires and then started over in a different order the machine would make you place new weights in new places almost every time, until more would not fit. After the shop teacher caught on to our shenanigans of adding over a pound of weights on one tire they called Hunter out to address the issue, they came, calibrated and "fixed" it.
The next week we had a chance to test it with the same results. How many machines are like this, throwing random combinations of weight on for an extra fee at the tire shop. How many shops don't calibrate or test there machines and just throw on what ever random amount the machine says to and call it good?

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## Rubicon

Agreed ^
Another reason why I don't bother with shop balancing, is that they don't know how. They just puts weights where the machine tells them, like you wrote. Even to the point of counterbalancing, which is simply stupid! That just adds unnecessary weight, which has negative drawbacks on many things. Well except for rim protectors, like you also stated, haha. People think that adding over a pound of weight around a circumference of say a 15" round wheel can possibly balance a 40" tire, where the outside diameter is 12.5" away at one specific point, is ridiculous.

Indeed flat spots, especially in bias-ply tires, even more so in bigger tires, will cause balance concerns. And yes, beads don't balance at slow speeds. But you don't really need balancing at slow speeds. It is the interstate speeds that an out of balance tire becomes an issue.

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